Ninian

But.. But... Butt..!

...but if jokes aside - it actually was a lovely competition, even if we didn't participated this year. ^^

Four, maybe five years ago, judging by age I have listed here, I've had a hysterical episode in this community's Discord, saying that Putin is a dangerous maniac and pleading for advises to solve his existence before it's too late and he does something monstrous. Well. I got banned. Years passed. Guess who was right. And we're back to what I've been asking back then - what to do? - only now every minute that rat's breathing is costing human lives. Just. Because. He. Wants it to be so. Fucking, inhumane, monstrous, deranged, degenerated maniac. We should've done more.

'@Ninian' Sorry.

Sorry you have to live with that POS dictator. Sorry oligarchs from my country helped make him what he is after the Union fell. Sorry this was not (still is not) the place for open calls of assassination. Sorry a lot more people, (looks like a lot of them Russian) are going to die.

But these are the times we live in. Stay strong, do your best, there is always hope.

@Ninian I know just how you feel, because I was telling people in 2016 that Donald Trump would 1) steal every bit of classified information he could get his paws on for personal use as leverage and also 2) refuse to leave office when he lost an election, and send his mob to do violence if none of the cheating or lying tricks worked to retain power. I was certain he would do both those things because I KNEW his history and had been warned about his character (as most young women in Manhattan in the early 90s were) Still waiting for an apology from friends who told me I was paranoid or exaggerating because they didn't know as much as I did. Even knowing the FACTS that supported my conclusions was seen as somehow "discrediting" like if you bothered to find out the facts, you must be "obsessed" or misinterpreting the possibility of actual danger to the US represented by an amoral, emotionally unbalanced, mentally deranged career criminal in the office half our country wants to imagine endows infallibility as in "the president cannot commit a crime because whatever he does defines Law" (only in the case of Republican presidents of course, they also imagine any non-GOP president in power is committing a crime just by BEING there)

To be honest, I am still quite puzzled with this whole affair.

So, idea is in building a ~3000 kilometers long wall, to make maintenance of border control easier. It does not looks like a controversial initiative. Neither it looks impossible - in age when people can build 54 kilometers long bridge and 800+ meters tall skyscraper.

So really, why, actually, not just do it? Aside of cost?

@Ninian
We should make the same between us.
Not because of people, but animals as you have swine pest or what's it called on your side and echinococcus multilocularis in foxes and wolfs. We don't have those here yet and when they get here it's going to be an expensive problem.
A wall would cost less.

@Kuusi Well, why not? Though I am not sure what could even be the "swine pest".

Because Putin would call it "fascist aggression" or something equally moronic and send in the "little green men"? Perhaps that's "why not"?

@OnkelFinland
Well, unless you head of state plans to capitalize on war instead of calling in the peacekeepers - you'll be perfectly safe. And Putin would get one step closer to being carried out of my country on a pitchfork.

It's charming that you motivate your decisions by presumed actions of an old botox rat. By "charming" I mean "disgusting".

@OnkelFinland
At this time of the year the LGM would be white first, later with red spots.

Not learning from history meant to repeating it... or something like that.

@Ninian
This:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D1%84%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%87%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B9

We don't have it yet and we are shooting wild boars here to prevent it spreading.
(maybe we should ask if the mexicans would also pay for this wall

@Kuusi
A, so this thing. Con artists used it so often to eradicate pigs on small farms - for fee from farm's competitors - that I almost forgot it was not completely made up.

@Ninian
We had no idea of that kind of thing and the papers have just been saying that it spreads by wild boars and pig house visitors and the statistics of the spreading have been worrying.
Good to know.

@Ninian From what I can tell, the cost is the main issue, especially with where the funds are supposed to come from. Things such as skyscrapers aren't necessarily funded by an entire country - from what I'm seeing in some brief research, it looks like it's the people developing the skyscrapers (contractors and architects and such) who have to get a loan from the bank for it. Meanwhile, Trump started with an unrealistic plan - to make another country pay for it - and has ended with the taxpayers paying for it, most of whom didn't actually vote for him to begin with.
As well, skyscrapers seem to cost around a billion or so, whereas the wall is estimated to need about $12 - $20 billion. That's a lot to ask either the US or Mexico to spend, considering Mexico's probably got their own issues to budget for and we keep having teachers going on strike nationwide for lack of funds.
It looks silly on the surface, but it's a different kind of silly, honestly. It's got me weary.

@Ninian
Aside from the cost, which would be far more than 5 billion and never mind the ongoing maintenance costs, it would be completely ineffectual at what it is supposed to do. IOW, not just a waste of money, but a waste of time. Then there's wildlife corridors that would be disrupted, so it'd be an ecological disaster, as well.

Let me put the question to you - aside from the cost, *why* do it?

@CanuckAmuck
It could make maintaining border much easier, if most of it would be more or less cross-proof, allowing to use less staff here, plus preventing the accidental border crossing.

Though I didn't thought about the wildlife migrating there. It actually is a very, *very* serious argument against such wall.

@Ninian No, wasting money on something pointless does not make doing something else easier. Do you know what would make border control better? Investing in it directly, instead of in something pointless.

@Carewolf
Sometimes replacing humans with inanimate assets works better, so depending on presumed efficiency wall could've been better than a legion of armed goons patrolling border day and night.

@Ninian Sorry to bring this up because it's so overused joke, but ladders exist. So do planes. The wall would do nothing to cut down need for border officers

@Ninian
There's also the whole issue of the majority of illegal immigration flying in now-a-days.

Also, it's generally a good idea to consider alternatives and with current technology even just drones would be at least equally efficient to a wall without disrupting towns and farmland and wildlife. With drones, a wider area covered with terrain considered, cameras and monitoring, plus a few extra jobs? With a wall, there's some extra employment offered but also night time with ladders and terrain issues.

@Ninian Another part of it is he hasn't said HOW he is going to spend the money and where it's going exactly, except for about 1.6 billion of it. There is also the fact that many civilians own the land he wants to take for the wall, so that's going to cost and people don't want to lose their land they have owned for some time. Plus it will go through mountains and rivers. Finally, from what we know, experts in this area say a wall might make things harder and it won't stop the problem of most illegals are ones the WERE legal, then their visa's ran out and many just... well... fly over here. So it's a lot of money on something many don't think would be the most effective way to protect the boarders. There are people who are against the wall but for better boarder security- so they just want the money spent more wisely.

@Ninian The problem isn't just that the wall is a waste of money, It's that Trump and conservatives are making it seem as if people are marching en masse across the US border every day. Illegal border crossings are at an all time low, so it's a big, expensive wall for solving a problem that doesn't exist

@Dzubur
Well, it could prevent such problem from arising in the future. Also, it could allow to severely reduce the border guard in size, saving the money that are usually spent on it.

I didn't knew that illegal border crossings are at their lowest at the present time, though. Appears as either a really proactive thinking to be doing such project at the moment, or as some sort of caprice. Odd timing.

@Ninian It would cost over 25 billion just to build the wall, not including the long term costs of staffing and maintaining the wall. People hate the wall because it is hypocritical. The whole reason the USA exists is that people from elsewhere came here to make a better life for themselves and their children, but throughout our history, Americans have been hostile to immigrants just cause they speak a different language or because they have a different skin color, and Trump is an extension of that Xenophobia. The wall was proposed not because of any extra need for border security, but because Trump doesn't like Hispanic people, calling them drug dealers and rapists

@Dzubur
Well, I'd argue there that it does not matters what intent is behind the action, matters the result.

Example: Putin's bridge over Kerch strait. It costed a national fortune, and is done for the most part to reinforce claim on Crimea - even though a more transparent referendum would've did that job much better. But result..! I've been in these parts. Travel between two shores of a pretty narrow strait, plagued by strong and unpredictable currents, was a pain. Especially for any serious shipping. Using ferryboats in XXI century sounds like an insanity. But, people had no other options due to same politics that made bridge possible now. Borders may change, but bridge *will remain*. Stable, safe - at least much safer than a ferryboat.

Actions taken with bad intent may still give good results.

So, this is why I asked "why not", objectively. I've seen a lot of actually serious arguments against the idea of border wall written in responses to my original post, but hypocrisy, I think, does not qualifies as one.

@Ninian If a wall gets built, it doesn’t matter, cause most illegal immigrants come on planes, not over the border. The wall is hypocritical because our country only exists because of immigrants. By putting up a giant wall, we are telling people “America doesn’t want you people.” That’s not the kind of country I grew up in nor do I want my children growing up in.

Besides, a bridge is meant to unify people, not separate them. We should be building more bridges and less walls

@Ninian : The reason is simple. The Dems were fine with building barriers in earlier administrations, but now that TRUMP wants to do it, they just can't stand to go along with something he'd see as a "win"! The list of excuses they come up with to hide the real reason have more holes than swiss cheese!

@Newnetherlander

Really?

Spam much? :-D

@Ninian
Plus, the wall would cost an inane amount of money to maintain for very little actual effect at stopping illegal immigrants (which mostly use existing border crossings and things like airports to come in, not to mention that every design they came up with can be climbed, tunnelled under, or even sawed holes into with a regular saw people have at home, so even the few people that try to cross where the wall would be would most likely not be stopped) and cut certain areas along the border with endangered animals and plants in them in half, making it a big threat to the preservation of those animals in the desert.

@StarrySky
Sawing? Wasn't it supposed to be concrete?

As for wildlife - already saw that argument, it actually looks as a really serious one.

@Ninian It was also supposed to be paid for by Mexico. "The Wall" they are discussing at this point is a fence.

@Carewolf
Unlike actions of Mexico, the project of the wall itself *is* in control of US administration. So, they switched from concrete..? That is.. ..well, isn't there already a some sort of chain-link fence along most of the border anyway?

@Ninian Not chain-link, but corrugated steel sheet along most of the more heavily trafficked regions. The latest I heard was that the proposed wall was supposed to be 30-ft high steel slats. And in testing, the slats could be sawed through with tools most people would have easy access to. Basically, a wall is a good idea in principle, but it won't do much compared to its cost. It's a very long border, and it's hard to stop people climbing over or tunneling under in remote regions; even stopping these people after they cross won't do all that much good, as many people just surrender themselves and hope that their request for asylum will be granted. Besides, as others have mentioned, most people cross at checkpoints or fly in, or simply overstay their visas. The wall may stop some people, but not many compared to its cost. However, the idea that this will do anything to stem the flow of illegal drugs entering the country is pure fantasy.

@Ninian No, for much of the border there is currently nothing but natural desert

@Ninian look at it another way. Was the Berlin Wall affective and how much did it cost for upkeeping it.

@Niren
I do not know how much it cost, but pretty much it was effective. Most of it's successful crossings were done via the river, which also appears to have claimed almost the third of the people who ever died trying to cross Berlin Wall.

@Ninian A major difference though was that people trying to cross the Berlin Wall would be gunned down

@UnknownDane
Yes and no. As I pointed, a considerable amount of people crossing it did so by using the river. Shots were, believe or not, the last resort. Wall was guarded by germans themselves, after all. Same germans as those who tried to cross it.

@Ninian because the idea of actually defending our own borders, despite it being our right as a sovereign nation, is seen as racist and crazy by the brain washed masses that can't seem to grasp the idea that illegal immigration is not a thing we should be open to.

@Ninian I find it funny people even think that will be effective.There will always be people that will be bribed into letting imigrants in,people that will find ways to tear it down in certain less secure places,people that will make a living out of smuggling them inside etc.
Lets not forget,the biggest wall in the world,the wall of China was mostly useless.The first time the enemy just keep going until the wall ended entered on that side.The second time they didn't even bother to do that much.They just payed the guards enough money to let them inside using a gate that was less secure.
If people want to get inside a place,they will always find a way.

@Ninian

1) Because we don't live in a fantasy land where you can make one of the premises be "aside from cost."

2) Because it's a COMPLETE waste of money and there are MANY other better things to spend money on. Including building down the deficit that Republicans profess to care so much about.

3) Because it wouldn't keep people out other than the good, hard-working people (who often do work that Americans don't want to do) and wouldn't keep out any drug-running criminals who just dig tunnels/fly over.

Clear?

@NaCltyGrl
Not clear - rude, harsh, and barely containing any arguments. Check comments above for actual arguments.

@Ninian

Whatever.

Sexist much?

@NaCltyGrl

"Sexist much?" - And where did that conclusion came from?

@Ninian

Don't really feel like taking the time to explain, sorry! :-)

@Ninian

Btw, I like vodka! :-)

@NaCltyGrl

Being honest, I personally hate vodka. Taste is boring, and having a high alcohol count alone is not a virtue for a drink. Makes good base for cocktails though, from what I understand.

Plus - well, so what..? It's just a consumable drink product. We weren't first to invent it, and can't say we are it's biggest producer. USA and France make nearly half of global vodka exports. It isn't exactly that much of a russian beverage~ Neither liking it or disliking it means anything.

..but anyway. Thanks and good wishes to you, I guess..?

@NaCltyGrl
A, the nickname. No, I am not. Deal with it~

@Ninian

Whatever, don't really care, sorry! :-)

@Ninian Symbolism. A wall like Trump wants would be counted as among the greatest feats of human engineering in history. And it would be motivated by cowardice, ignorance and bigotry.

Ah, I feel like I know where Finland learned that trick~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha5FI2LVIDU

Congratulations. May you have peace and prosperity.

I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than you!

@Ninian This ends here, Huajarhyargh!

@Ninian I saw a mudcrab the other day. Horrible creatures.

@Rogers Any news from other provinces?

More like "about a hundred talking heads in my mind hate gays, but even they have to deal with Eurovision being shown to people". But worry not, then these talking heads send thugs to beat the people and feel themselves empowered again.

Sounds as okay tradition to me..! ^^

In case anybody wondering - here's petition for additional investigation of incident on change.org. ^^

I am not sure, think it will be all right to post it here? Or it violates rules of website?

To be precise it was administration of "Mayak" facility, that denied the incident. Agencies of RF did not denied increase of ruthenium level in atmosphere or that one of biggest spikes in it was in Chelyabinsk region. Levels didn't reached dangerous, though.

...a-and guess who just got banned from Eurovision 2017 T~T

@Ninian Those damned ableist Ukrainians banning a disabled woman, shame...

...our paralympians were banned from the event. T~T

@Ninian
Thats sad. The olympics and paralympics should be used as a force to bring us all together, regardless of politics.

I want him out. I want him out. I want him out. I want him out. I want him out. I want him out. I want him out. I want him out. I want him out. I want him out. I want him out.

Another day - another day of cackling misery. Could'be been such a normal life...

The world is crumbling. I... I think they should've let me die of pneumonia when I was a child.

@Ninian
Maybe you did, maybe you are in The Matrix.

@The_Yellow_Ardvark No, I didn't. Fascist dictatorship in a state of total warfare that drafts innocent unwilling citizens to be thrown in an offensive war against an ally state and brother nation of ours, full of our friends and relatives, in the name of ambitions on a small group of deranged, criminal, corrupted rich assholes surrounded by a private army the size of federal land forces who at every smallest bit of protest lash with overwhelming force, and who ban, destroy and crush any minorest prospect of hope - are reality. Deranged fascists running my home and waving nuclear weapons around just in case the current amount of death of innocents isn't enough for them - are reality.

@Ninian
How do you know you are not in a Matrix?

Well. "Atomic Heart" is totally gonna be killed by that war. Could've been real good. Fuck.

Another day. Another sleepless night. Another turn of axis, gringing my life away. Chiseling away a piece after piece. Yesterday a piece was lost. Today has come for due.

A peculiar thought have visited me. For thirdty years we have been taught to be ashamed of our revolutions and unrests, that us rebelling was a great mistake and a crime, told us entire world, from our government to distant-most foreigners.

And now we are being belittled for not lashing into a violent revolutionary massacre. By the same rest of the world that told us we should repent for daring to spill blood of monarchs. Peculiar how perspectives change, isn't it?

Inside each of us lives a small child. That grows sadder with each passing day.

Another day, another week, another month with no good news at all. How did we end up in the world without good news.

А при коммунизме всё будет заебись
Он наступит скоро, надо только подождать
Там всё будет бесплатно, там всё будет в кайф
Там, наверное, вообще не надо будет умирать
Я проснулся среди ночи и понял, что

Всё идёт по...

I'm wondering if we'll ever see depiction of Putin similar to one that was there for Trump. A tumor. I guess we'll have to wait until he nukes a russian city or two.

There's no unity between president and the country, for many years. Might've aknowledged that for once.

@Ninian Не подтверждаю =\

(can't confirm)

@molotovinpeikko You're not confirming what? That he's a cancerous tumor?

@Ninian,your point about unity. The support for such an indefensible thing is truly staggering.

@molotovinpeikko Well, point to me since when are we supporting Putin still, exactly? Since we didn't had a torch march over a sea of police and natguard corpses towards Kremlin? Is *that* what we need to do for world to realise that this piece of shit has no support from citizens?

@Ninian
> point to me since when are we supporting Putin still, exactly?

Since 2000, obviously. What are you getting at?

> what we need to do for world to realise that this piece of shit has no support from citizens?

You can start with persuading me, for example. Because I see a lot of people supporting him in his madness. That actually is the deciding thing for me to go.

@molotovinpeikko 2000 ended a loooooong time ago.

Okay, let me persuade you: I know, more or less close enough to be aware of their political views, about, I think, 40 or so people. Some close, some not so close, but again - close enough to know their political views. Out of all I know only 2 that support that war. One is a young majoress, daughter of some provincial state clerk, and another one is some low-rank grunt in national guard. 2 out of roughly 40. Family, friends, aquanintances, people over internet - out of all only 2 support that shitshow, and arguably both have a lot of personal reason to support the source of their meal ticket. Where did *you* found "a lot of people" supporting bombing cities where shit ton of russians have friends or even relatives?

@Ninian, that's the definition of info bubble.
Never heard about Telegram channels where shitheads collect info about anti-war *colleagues* and then bully them? Ever looked into comments under some vaguely patriotic news, like a girl with Russian flag in Munich to? Count followers of pro-war fucks like Okhlobystin.
The madness is real.

@molotovinpeikko I specifically mentioned that I know people outside of my social cirle. I don't need to know somebody intimately to know their political agenda. If I wanted a bubble stats I would've said "oh look ho many likes got videos of Navalny's remaining team!" or "hey, check out this "Beware of them!" Telegram channel dedictaed to dangerous assholes from out own country!". Again, I gave you example of people that I know, and most importantly - people that stated their views not for the camera. Not bots, not pseudo-patriots that get some boon out of it, not some celebrity doing a publicity stunt - regular people of various upbringings, ages and locations, and literally only two of all whom I know support the war and Putin, and both are literally depending on Putin's wellbeing to not end up unwanted and moneyless.

He has a lot of flashy PR, good to create visibility of support. Visibility which shatters once you talk to people and not just watch copy-pasted comments under hurrah-patriotic videos about one special nation clearing out the subhuman nazi-apologizers.

@Ninian
"People you know" is the definition of a bubble. My bubble includes dozens of people who left Russia, recently and not-so-much, but still I can list 10-15 of those who would say something like "I don't like war, but we had no other choice" or worse.
In February, I matched on Tinder with two girls (those were all my matches). I didn't even ask about their position on war, because they looked and sounded very nice and all, but it all crumbled the first time discussion started. Remember, those are people from my age group that I liked, not a random sample of whoevers: they speak foreign languages, like going abroad etc. I was crestfallen.
Try creating two fake Tinder profiles with the same photos etc. The difference would be one line in bio: "Proud to be Russian" and "No war", then compare collected likes in a week. I'd be very interested to see results of such an experiment

@molotovinpeikko Sounds interesting - but got no Tinder on my phone.

@Ninian
Too bad that you can't simply *install* it… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@molotovinpeikko Amusingly I can't, Google Play is not working. And that is an experiment I am too lazy at the moment to dedicate efforts too. Technically I should be sitting on spoonfulls of antidepressants right now, but alas.

@Ninian
Sorry to hear that! Atarax did the trick for me before I actually fled, but it's not super easy to get. Otherwise can recommend =)

By the way, just now I've seen a profile in Tinder with a note "To clarify: Z :russian-flag:"
Here in Armenia no less =(

@molotovinpeikko I've seen a Russian Empire fan with heraldics and ambitions, guy was from USA and never set foot on Eurasia in his life. Cringe happens.

@Ninian: well, yeah, but she's a Russian from Moscow, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My point is: I'm very sorry, but be realistic. Lots and lots of Russians have been infected with that paranoid "we had to strike first" mentality. I don't say that Russians are different and particularly susceptible to propaganda, but it is what it is. Don't overestimate the resistance. Propaganda does its work.

@molotovinpeikko Don't underestimate people, aside from mentally challenged and children everyone can see propaganda for what it is. Some just align with it for convenience.

@Ninian: I might be way too cynical for that; after all, I'm ten year older than you, and I have seen some shit =)

> everyone can see propaganda for what it is

I wish I could believe in people that much.

You see, there's a difference. Your experience cannot undermine mine, while mine does undermine yours. Both your and my social bubbles *are* irrepresentative, but if mine has so many propaganda victims, that should ring a bell.

@molotovinpeikko Again, you're taking those z's at face value, also, I'm 31, just feel too lazy to adjust age on server. My experience is of somebody currently living in the country, and interacting with people in the country, and again - with people from different social groups and whatnot. Meanwhile you seem to rely on distance-based sources, like Tinder and Internet more than on face to face interaction. We can argue forever, apparently. Will see who is right when Putin's dead.

@Ninian
> Again, you're taking those z's at face value

How am I supposed to take them, if a person abroad thinks it's important enough to add to a Tinder bio? It's not Russia, remember, there's no need to hide your anti-war views. Also, I'm pretty sure here in Yerevan it's much easier to find Armenian person supporting Putin than Russian one. So give me a good explanation of that encounter.

> My experience is of somebody currently living in the country

Again: this is your personal experience. It is by definition skewed. This is why I don't draw conclusions from my own circles: it's not representative of wider population. By fucking definition. And even for me, there's WAY too many people supporting the "operation", including my own parents (to some degree).

So, I'm pretty sure you try to hide from an uncomfortable truth. Which is understandable, but won't do much good in the long run.

@molotovinpeikko Meanwhile you are excluding people whom you can get sincerety from, instead of way too often empty posturing. You're overrating what those z's mean most of the time.

@Ninian *Well, point to me since when are we supporting Putin still, exactly?*
When you don't actually resist.
*doom Jeralash sounds*
No, this is for real. In 2013 we have had all this bullshit with police, missing people and shit. We won. You didn't even took fight. We have burned a police water thrower. In winter. With water in it. Burned. We didn't stop even when the shooting started. I was there. So I have the right to say: You have not even tried to resist Putin. No, filming police on your cell phone is no resistance. You fight for freedom, or have none.

@ahovdryk Well, great, congrats. Have a cookie and remember to show no mercy for "weaklings" ince Putin's army breaks down, apparently. Because of course all the protests aren't enough of a sign of resistance unless we start murdering police. Because of course, not committing to murders is exactly the sign of a warmonger nation.

@Ninian
*Well, great, congrats. Have a cookie and remember to show no mercy for "weaklings" ince Putin's army breaks down, apparently. Because of course all the protests aren't enough of a sign of resistance unless we start murdering police. Because of course, not committing to murders is exactly the sign of a warmonger nation.*

Well, your nation IS committing murders. Mass murders included. We won't do anything you are trying to put blame of. Sign of a warmongering nation is, you know, a MASSIVE OCCUPATION FORCE in a try to commit genocide. You have done it. You have no excuses for that. You cannot rape anyone because someone else did. You have no rights to go into war with Ukraine because of NATO expanding. The only reason for any Anti-Russian alliance to exist is a constant Russian aggression. Like, you know, the "no-Russians" hotel did not emerge because of some existential "russophobia". You did that. YOU. It's not Putin, who drives Russian tank, that's not Putin, who flies Russian jet bombers, that's not Putin, who shells cities. No. No. That's not Putin. To kill aprrox 300k of people and turn millions into refugees takes work of many millions combined. Personally you paying taxes and being silent included. You have no one to blame except yourself. You have no excuses. You shall have no redemption. Once again: you have did it. You. Not the Ukrainians, NATO, national battalions. You have embraced and celebrated Putin, and now reap the bloody crops. You did that. Not Biden, not Trump, not Obama, not even Bush. You haven't resisted while you could. So we shall have no mercy for the "weak" not in the Russian way of slaughter, terror and rape - something we are witnessing from YOU. We shall never give you an honor of forgiveness and acceptance of you. We don't need you, actually. We just want you to clean up YOUR mess, and begone forever from our sights. You did that. Don't be puny in denying. That's ...raff. What have you expected to hear? I'm in Kyiv now. I am not afraid. That is because I am not a coward. Even if Russian rocket gets me - I shall die as a free man. It satisfies me, you shall never ever get such a chance. Ironic, huh?

@ahovdryk Putin with his close circle of personal friends is one who built that army, stole money to finance it, and demonstratively robbed, beaten and murdered those that opposed that, for years of time. His army will shoot russian citizens all the same as it shoots ukrainian ones right now - it even did on a few occasions on last few years. His army is staffed with handpicked loyal psychopaths with erroded sense of empathy, that would beat women and children into pavement without batting an eye and would shoot at unarmed people without flinching. This is why they so easily did these horrors in Ukraine. Again, my apologies that we didn't stopped them with violence, *normal people resent it* where I'm from. Normal people that were denied voice and representation for years.

If we were in any genuine ways supporting this war - Putin would've not needed to raise contractor maximum age to 65, lower it to minimum 18, and lower minimal education required from college to middle school. He's ready to hire even this spring's school graduates , if only anyone'd agree to join his thinning army.

It's not Putin that flies jets and drives tanks, it's people Putin's government cherry-picked and hoarded for a decade to threaten, maim and murder, and that it's running out now. And cannot find replacements for them. In a country of 145 million people, it cannot find enough volunteers even with all the money Putin offers.

We're done with wars. We're done with mass murders. Apologies that we didn't drowned Moscow in blood to stop this dictator, we're not cut for that anymore. Considering Putin never would dare going to frontlines, since he's avoiding even just normal people for last few years, one best things you can do to harm him - is to keep in mind, memorise if need be - there are nuances. Not entire Russia, not even a majority, is supporting his government and what it does. Resistance isn't always done with murder. It's impossible to write entire history with blood. If we had it in normal people to murder in resistance to dictator - that would've happened years ago. Instead the only psychothic murderers are the ones in national guard and army, either dying in Ukraine in the name of man who won't even pay their widows if they even managed to find anyone before expiring like a can of boot pilish, or sitting in Moscow, Peterburg, Vladivostok and other cities, with clubs and loaded guns, awaiting a next big protest to erupt, because just like them, Putin is a deficient, dementive degenerate that cannot comprehend that violence is not the only way of communication.

Don't devolve into that. You deserve better. Entire world does.

@Ninian
*Putin with his close circle of personal friends is one who built that army, stole money to finance it, and demonstratively robbed, beaten and murdered those that opposed that, for years of time.*
All of that time most of Russians remained silent. Those who opposed have not resisted. This army you are speaking of is not composed of Martians.
* His army will shoot russian citizens all the same as it shoots ukrainian ones right now - it even did on a few occasions on last few years.*
Well, we have stopped that on a police stage. And then army was rebuilt. Quite in time I must say.
*His army is staffed with handpicked loyal psychopaths with erroded sense of empathy, that would beat women and children into pavement without batting an eye and would shoot at unarmed people without flinching. This is why they so easily did these horrors in Ukraine. Again, my apologies that we didn't stopped them with violence, *normal people resent it* where I'm from. Normal people that were denied voice and representation for years.*
We have used violence not because we are fans of violence. We have used violence, because it is the one and only language dictators understand. We haven't used violence first, whatever you have been told. So leave your "apologies" to yourself. You haven't stopped the dictator, and here we are - your nation is in deep shit, while we must fight for our existence. This simple idea should get you in to some thinking.
You say you were denied from voice. It is very funny and pitiful thing to hear. A voice is something never given to anyone. It has always been taken. You didn't, and that is the whole story. You were unable to stand for you rights, for your freedom, for you dignity and for your good name. Something really worth of respect, huh?
*If we were in any genuine ways supporting this war - Putin would've not needed to raise contractor maximum age to 65, lower it to minimum 18, and lower minimal education required from college to middle school. He's ready to hire even this spring's school graduates , if only anyone'd agree to join his thinning army. *
The real genuine way to support war is to accept. Russian war against our existence is accepted by Russian society. I have internet and I'm able to read, even in Russian (do you know that tales of language oppression are crystal bs?). The most warm words I've heard were "be used to be Russians now". The idea of conquering a neighbor meets no resistance in Russians, and have never met. Some little victorious war, y'know. Since you have failed to have any rights, since Russia had fallen into dictatorship it is actually irrelevant whether support is active or passive. Those, who had not fled, shall be forced, if needed. This is the reality, you cannot surrender to tyranny, or consequences shall be most dire. We know that, and we have resisted. We know that, and we are fighting. You don't believe in that and telling things to me. Quite a silly things. Because we are placed by you, plural you into position to choose between violence and death. We are not some samurai, so we have chosen violence. Because only that is something you understand. Plural you.
*It's not Putin that flies jets and drives tanks, it's people Putin's government cherry-picked and hoarded for a decade to threaten, maim and murder, and that it's running out now.*
Yeah, rinning out. Tell that in Kharkiv or Mykolajiv. It is not Putin. It is Russian army, with Russians inside. With millions of Russians serving Russian genocide machine, military and propaganda united. Should I mentions those, who work in "filtration camps"? It is not Putin. Millions have put effort in a try to exterminate Ukraine. So derussificatios is needed as much, as denazification was. Sad but true.
*And cannot find replacements for them*
That is not because of low war support, but because we are quite effective in killing invaders. Western weapons have proven to be a fine instrument.
*We're done with wars.*
It is a lie. Even within my life Russians have invaded Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine, Syria and have been involved in several more. You could not say something more vicious than you did.
*We're done with mass murders.*
You are telling this to someone, who lives 500 meters from a rocket strike site. You are lying. You have not stopped mass murders, and you shall not stop, until you are forced to. Plural you. Since you have lied about the wars, I have no reason to distinct you from "Wagners" PMC, or Putin. Your nation have never stopped the wars. And, to be honest, it is rare, when you are target, and not the cause of war and mass murders. That is why Ukraine's Rebel Army have stopped shooting in 1964. Did you know that? We hate being you, being with you, we hate everything about you, we hate when you call us brothers, and we have a good reasons for that. Russians have called us brothers in Soviet times, and this have resulted in "Executed Renaissance", when Russian have executed our finest actors, writers, singers, the very soul of our people, and than you have come for the body with the Holodomor Famine. After that we have heard about brothers once more, right before Bucha massacre. And now you are coming with "we are done" hutzpah to me. What are you expecting except hatred and despise? Your pitiful self-excuses are
only worth that much.
*Apologies that we didn't drowned Moscow in blood to stop this dictator, we're not cut for that anymore.*
Yeah, because others blood have no cost for you. Your freedom are worthless for you. Actually, I must remind you of 1994. There were no flood of blood. I know the answer, and you do. You are simply afraid. You are not worthy enough to do the right thing. Therefore you get no respect, only scorn.
*Considering Putin never would dare going to frontlines, since he's avoiding even just normal people for last few years, one best things you can do to harm him - is to keep in mind, memorise if need be - there are nuances.*
There are no nuances. Situation is clear and obvious. Russian army is committing acts of genocide in a war of aggression in Ukraine, and Russians are trying to say that they are OK. You have done less than any Baltic state to stop that. So the only thing we should memorize - Russians should be thrown into Russia and forced to deal with their shit, that have been hitting fan all too frequently. Or Russia must be destroyed. Any way to stop you from attacking goddamn everybody should go. That is only nuance that matters. You, plural you, have started more wars than anybody else since XX century. This is WWII included. Yes, USSR have started it with his ally of that time. Than Europe became too small for both of you.
* Not entire Russia, not even a majority, is supporting his government and what it does. *
I can see quite the opposite. Silent opposition is nonexistent opposition. I repeat - YOU HAVE DONE LESS THAN ANYONE TO STOP THAT. So when you are trying to tell me, you are against that, sorry, I don't believe you. You are against loosing the war, not against Ukrainians dead. All of you are.
*Resistance isn't always done with murder.*
Murder? You are even unable to print opposition press. Laughable. Puny. Weak. Sorrowful.
* It's impossible to write entire history with blood.*
Russians did.
* If we had it in normal people to murder in resistance to dictator - that would've happened years ago.*
The only way to defeat a dictator with pacifism is to laugh him into death. You are unable to provide that, cause only thing your opposition is able to summon are tears of sorrow and spanish shame.
You could end this peacefully while you have had some democracy. You have chosen Putin. Sorry. Tick-tack. Window of opportunity to solve the matters peacefully is closed. We shall throw you away, and then your empire shall collapse. It shall collapse with blood and popcorn. Because you were afraid. This blood shall be on your hands, and most of the neighbors shall seek to stab you, not to lend a help. That is the price of bs you are telling me. Despite all the Russian efforts to burn our crops, we shall have a popcorn to enjoy the show. We won't send you any food, like we did in 1991.
*Instead the only psychothic murderers are the ones in national guard and army, either dying in Ukraine in the name of man who won't even pay their widows if they even managed to find anyone before expiring like a can of boot pilish, or sitting in Moscow, Peterburg, Vladivostok and other cities, with clubs and loaded guns, awaiting a next big protest to erupt, because just like them, Putin is a deficient, dementive degenerate that cannot comprehend that violence is not the only way of communication. *
Yeah. He cannot understand anything but violence, and you condemn violence. Therefore you are a Putin's supporter because you shall never do anything that can harm him, make him stop, or at least slow down his bloody endeavors. From Kyivan perspective you are no less an enemy, than Russian armed troops, just have much lower priority. Because you are not against killing innocents, you just want to be "good". Silence is a weapon of tyranny and oppression. And you are/were silent against Putin when that mattered. You are brave enough to tell pacifist tales to a target of a genocide, but made your pants yellow to stop genocide by a Russian government. Sorry. I shall never forgive you, cause you have quite the same amount of empathy and compassion as Russian soldiers. Do you really fail to understand, that this insane delirium you are telling, is targeted to someone who has air raid sirens for alarm clock? Who has lost friends, killed by Russian soldiers? You are brave enough to reproach me of some imaginary blood in Moscow, but you were weak to actually spill some for YOUR freedom. For YOUR dignity. For YOUR human rights. Ignoble. Puny. Weak. Laughable. That is why you are gonna be hated. Because you have not learned the bloody lesson of Martin Niemöller. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... This one. You have never stood for anybody but you, and now don't understand why noone is standing for you. In Ukraine I have stood for the Jews, and for Muslim Qirim. And now they stand for me. United. That is why we will win. When we will defeat Putin, you shall gain nothing from that. Your mess is your own to clean. We shall destroy you without even smallest shreds of evil. You shall have no forgiveness. Because we are not you. We are not your brothers. After we retake what you have stolen from us, after you repay us what you can repay, you shall go from our lives. Forever. This shall destroy Russia and Russians. With you. Singular you. We don't need you. We don't need your comments on how we should do. You can take whole your imperial essence, and do what you must. Follow the warship. And that is because you were as humane, as your soldiers. Telling someone under your rockets a pacifist tale, that violence is not an only options. Sorry, but that were not us, who have started the war. It was you. When an aggressor tells victim something like that, this is an A-grade blasphemy, this is a grave insult, and you even have no heart to feel that, and no soul to start to understand that. Sorry, Russian. We are better than that, fine. But this gives you no excuse. Actually, you shall never have any. You are damned, and you know it. You don't know what shall emerge after the war. I do. You shall never be forgiven. Because you are not good enough for that. Because you were too scared to fight evil. And we weren't. That is what this war actually about. You have picked your side, and your side is to ignore evil. This actually, makes you the evil.

@ahovdryk I'll shroten it. Go get meds. Feel free to explode again, in all the vitriol and hatred, but *go get meds*. You're not unique, you're not only one who lost friends or even relatives to that war - including to the Putin's army. Many did, including in RF. And it is taking toll on you. In bad way. Go get meds. You have a life to live ahead. So start working on fixing your psyche *now*. Consult with specialist. Grieve it out. Go get meds.

If I'm as heartless and devoid of empathy as you claim, I might as well play that role. And point out that all people that lost someone need help. *Medical* one. Because of war, and stress, and anger, and pain, and loss. Go. And get yours. Because the more you will go on without help - the worse it will get. *For people around you*, if *you* are so empathetic and righteous, might as well understand that without medical aid you will endanger the people *nearby*. The innocents, that did nothing to you. That most likely share the exactly same pain as you.

It's normal to get angry. Not so to not get over it. Sounds like shit, but it's what you do when live in a society.

By the way, over 3 years passed, still waiting on proper reason for why the hell was I banned from SATW Discord. Aside from mod just being from Baltics, seeing me going hysterical over what a dangerous maniac Putin is, and deciding that I don't deserve to have my despair helped and should just suffer quietly the fact that my country is turning into a fascist dictatorship.

And now we're here. At the "I told you so" moment. It'd be nice to be unbanned, but at very least I can say - I told you Putin is an insane degenerate that can commit any sort of atrocity. Apologies for doing it too vocally, I suppose.

@Ninian
going to open this can of worms, but frankly, i dont give a fuck (not like i enter here anymore anyways).
First off, discord is discord, Dayvi has no say over it. And since ive left it (and probably was who banned you as well), so i dont have access to mod stuff anymore (or the logs, so i cant confirm)).
From what i can recall (and i do apologise if i mix you up with another russians- we had ton of those people), your "explaining your despair" was essentially you griping about everything and everyone, often in breach of rules and often in style of "i can say s**t about russia, but you cant" and you lashed out to anyone talking to you.
Like you said yourself, you going hysterical is what caused you to be banned. Right or wrong, if you cant engage with fellow people within given rulesets of any server, you need to check your own behaviour. SatW server was never meant to be therapy space for anyone- for that, look somewhere else.
And frankly, i am 99 percent sure i said it back then (probably one comment that made you flip out back then) and i will say this now- its not just putler. Its entire ruzzia. Without backing of russians, putler would have nothing. And this war has proven it- even opposition seems to be "we hate putin, but not the war if we are winning". So want to change your country turning into dictatorship (which it has already been for well over a decade)? Start by not bowing to putler. Its dangerous? well, no shit, but its less dangerous than being sent to frontline as mobik.

On my mind: Horrors of war. Loathing towards Putin. Spite over being banned from SATW Discord. Unhealthy urge to run and start murdering police. Healthy realisation I need serious mental help. Regret over it being 6:24 AM with another sleepless night behind me. Horrors of war, injustice, concerns over safety of people I care about, conflict about what to think of army that *follows* those orders and yet later will crawl back maimed and mentally damaged, half of time whining about their mental trauma, half time lashing out at people and mutilating them because "muh PTSD, Halk go RRRRRAAAAGE!". A-and a dose of ironic reminter to myself to at least try finding some reliable methods of mental therapy beyond simply practicing escapism, because the moment I get even slightest reminder about reality... Whoop! 19 hours have passed, I'm stressed, sleepless, ugly, growing old, my country's in shit, president is a maniacal dictator with nukes and all that on top of gender identity issues, generally fucked up brain, and, I dunno, let me throw my problematic skin around the nose in there for the good measure.

I really could use spending a year or two in a coma, just seeing dreams, seeing something adequate and normal, like fairies and cosmic unicorns, instead of this fucked up parody of a reality.

@Ninian don't worry mate, this war will be over sooner or later, just like Putin's rule)

Still banned, still no reason provided. Meanwhile, continuing my last conversation with Discord admin - check my country's news, *I told you so*. And when they'll end up killing somebody - there'll be even *bigger* "I told you so".

Well, it's more like "our mutants", since three countries - Ukraine, RF and Belarus - share areas polluted by Chernobyl catastrophe. It's not just the "zone", there are contaminated areas outside of it too.

https://kazanreporter.ru/storage/web/source/images/news/1/7zrL9zLYcCXhJFKPM98HUiOudYYJECJT.jpg

Looks nice. I like.

'@Ninian' you forgot about double, triple and extender.

Welcome to the dawn of new era. Welcome to age, when scolding a policeman, speaking against corrupted politician, calling things the way they are - would grant you jailtime of 15 days and more.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/06/russian-parliament-outlaws-online-disrespect

Welcome. Abandon hope.

@Ninian Who if not Putin should govern Russia? Or, what does the Russians really want?

If you ask me, I think Putin is a better choice than, say, Vladimir Zhirinovski.

@HHWinston
Anybody else competent. Any of people, who are banned from creating political parties, persecuted, or kept down in existing parties - any of the whole literally next generation of humans, who are forbidden to develop their potential so this mummy remains in presidential seat.

Being banned from Discord without reason or warnings, presumably by an admin that scolded me for not seeing many solutions to corruption and abuse of people with power. Over a month passed, still not given any explanations or reasoning for the ban, or explanation why there were no warnings, despite asking within 5 minutes of the ban, then asking again, and again, in various sections of forum, first politely and by now impolitely... Still no answer.

No, really - those rioters with molotov cocktails do everything right. Seems shit only can get done when you hold doer by the balls *literally*. Being civilized only gets you closed doors.

Was it transporting cocaine by tons? If not - meh, not even close to usual stuff we get.

In case you didn't knew:
https://blog.wandr.me/2018/02/russian-government-plane-cocaine-smuggling/
https://gcaptain.com/cape-verde-seizes-record-cocaine-haul-from-russian-ship/